10 Years After Obergefell: The Hidden Cost to Children and Families
- Krista Bontrager
- Aug 22
- 4 min read
We were joined by Them Before Us founder and child rights advocate, Katy Faust, to discuss the impact of the Obergefell decision a decade later. We explored critical insights about why biological family structures matter, whether children’s rights have been compromised, and what Christ-centered, child-first solutions may look like.
On tonight’s episode, we brought back our friend and colleague, Katy Faust. Katy is a children's rights activist and founder of the nonprofit, Them Before Us. We asked Katy to come on and help us reflect on the 10-year anniversary of the 2015 Supreme Court decision in Obergefell v. Hodges, which legalized same-sex marriage nationwide.Â
Here are the highlights from our conversation:
Q. For those unfamiliar, introduce yourself, your ministry, and why you comment on overturning Obergefell on X.
Katy describes herself as a children's rights activist running Them Before Us, the only nonprofit solely dedicated to defending children's right to their mother and father (after the right to life). She emphasizes empathy for adults facing issues like infertility or same-sex attraction but insists no adult longing justifies violating children's rights. Them Before Us opposes no-fault divorce, IVF, surrogacy, and gay marriage. She announces a national coalition at endobergefell.com to challenge Obergefell.
Q. Evangelicals didn't push back much in 2015; many accepted it, focusing on privacy rather than child impacts. How does gay marriage affect children? Â
Katy agrees the 2015 pushback was weak and ineffective against emotional manipulation (e.g., accusations of homophobia). She notes LGBTQ+ activism has overreached (e.g., pronouns, women's sports), reducing fear of speaking out. Gay marriage redefined parenthood, making mothers and fathers "optional," leading to societal harms like increased mother/father loss, legally endorsed in statutes.
Q. We were told gay marriage would fix issues like hospital visits or inheritance without broader harm, but critics warned of a slippery slope. How have things played out? Â
Sexual chaos has emerged (e.g., drag queen story hours, explicit sex education in schools). More damaging are legal overhauls: Obergefell equated same-sex couples to opposite-sex ones, requiring laws to grant children to same-sex couples via reproductive technologies, surrogacy, and parenthood redefinitions. This treats children as "benefits" of marriage, ignoring biology.
Q. Discuss your controversial response to Dave Rubin's surrogacy announcement, where conservatives congratulated him—why focus on child impacts? Â
Children have a right to their biological parents for identity, safety, and development. In Rubin's case (two men raising children via surrogacy), kids lose half their biological identity, face higher abuse risks from unrelated adults (a biological fact, per sociologist Brad Wilcox), and miss maternal input (irreplaceable, as discussed in her Jordan Peterson interview). Katy criticizes prioritizing adult happiness over child rights.
Q. React to Szeps' citation of studies claiming no differences in outcomes for children of same-sex parents—does research support that all kids need is two loving parents, regardless of sex/gender? Â
Katy regrets not challenging Szeps more directly in the debate. She argues most cited studies are flawed (small samples, self-reported, non-random, biased toward positive outcomes). Pre-2005 sociological consensus held that married biological parents provide the best outcomes; post-2005 studies showing "no difference" are ideologically biased and rigged (e.g., Heritage Foundation analysis). Even AI like Grok admits bias when probed. Biology matters: unrelated adults increase risks, and mothers/fathers offer complementary benefits. Edge cases (e.g., abusive bio parents) exist but don't negate the rule—debates should establish the rule first.
Q. How do you handle edge cases (e.g., "I know kids raised by gay parents who are fine" or "Traditional families abuse too") without derailing? Â
Establish the rule first (e.g., biological parents are statistically safest/best), then address exceptions. Opponents start with murky edge cases (like rape in abortion debates or intersex in gender discussions) to avoid the norm. If no agreement on the rule, the debate isn't honest.
Q. How should parents disciple kids when gay marriage is legal but not right?
Legal doesn't mean moral (e.g., slavery, abortion were legal injustices). Gay marriage violates natural law tying children to mothers/fathers.Â
Katy explains the coalition to end Obergefell will: (1) pursue judicial reversal, (2) shift public opinion (falling among Republicans), (3) create church curriculum (with experts like Rosaria Butterfield, Sean McDowell). Churches must protect the fatherless; gay marriage "manufactures" them.
Q. If Christians stay passive, thinking it's private/not our business, what impacts future generations? Â
Society heads toward dystopia: factory-made children via artificial wombs (China plans 2026), subsidized surrogacy/IVF, designer babies (e.g., Orchid screening), child marketplaces. This is millstone-level sin; Christians must side with children, even at social cost.
Resources:
Stand up for children and join the coalition:
Katy's debate with Josh Szeps: "Josh vs the Anti-Gay-Parenting Activist, Katy Faust": https://youtu.be/8XiN89VPM2A?si=BbQmouxzrNRXJTOi
Katy's substack article regarding her debate with Josh Szeps: "Five Mistakes in My Fight for Children": https://thembeforeus.substack.com/p/5-mistakes-in-my-fight-for-children
Check out our previous conversation with Katy on the impacts of no-fault divorce on children: https://www.youtube.com/live/dXc7Ek3cYxw?si=U1NQT9NCrCqfPZ5l
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X: @Advo_Katy
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