Dr. Doug Geivett and Holly Pivec (co-authors, A New Apostolic Reformation? and Counterfeit Kingdom) talked to us about the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) and gave us their view on miracles.
Sponsored by: Family 210 – Buy a shirt and support the show!
Interview with Doug and Holly
Are miracles for today? It's an important topic that we tackled on tonight's show.
Our guests this evening have co-written books on this topic, particularly regarding the hyper-charismatic movement of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR).
Holly Pivec--received her education in Christian Apologetics at Biola University and she worked as an editor at the school's magazine. She has extensive research experience in cults and off-key groups and authors a blog at her website (in addition to the books she has co-authored with Doug).
Dr. Doug Geivett--is a seasoned researcher, teacher, and author. He's a professor at Biola University.
What is the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)?
A fast-growing, global movement.
Causing a lot of division in the Church.
It is redefining key Christian terms, such as prayer, the Gospel, the Great Commission.
A movement led by church leaders that claim to be apostles and prophets; their core teachings are that these modern day apostles and prophets must govern the church, meaning they must hold the highest hierarchical offices in church government (pastors, elders submit to them).
Believe they are bringing critical new revelation that all Believers must have for the Great Commission to be fulfilled.
The Church is supposed to take socio-political control/dominion of the earth, bringing God's physical Kingdom to earth by waging spiritual warfare and working great miracles (even greater than Jesus); the way they do this is by utilizing "activation exercises" in the gift of prophecy.
Teachings of NAR are NOT historic Pentecostal or classical charismatic (in terms of the belief in spiritual gifts of prophecy, speaking in tongues, and healings), but is instead a radical departure (In other words, this is not simply a debate about "continuationists" vs "cessationists").
What is the OT/NT position on miracles?
It's complicated and varied!
Reports of miracles...Moses, prophets, Elijah, Jonah.
Narrative reports on the life of Jesus and the Apostles in the book of Acts.
Miracles came before the laws of nature! God created the universe, called forth out of nothing (ex nihilo) = MIRACLE!
Essentially, miracles can be defined as a violation of the laws of nature/physics.
What was the role of miracles in the life and ministry of Jesus and the early church?
People were drawn to Jesus because of His miracles (John 6:2).
The paralyzed man in Mark 2 was brought to Jesus by friends...the miracles were largely done to help people who needed a physician AND also symbolic of his power as the Physician of the soul.
This healing in Mark 2 is especially important in relation to NAR...Jesus heals the paralyzed man in his own power as the Son of Man, as God in human flesh (and with the power to forgive sins that came with that authority to heal)...BUT many in NAR will say that when Jesus performed miracles, he did NOT do this in his own power, but he did it in direct dependence on the Spirit of God or God the Father who worked through him (as a mere human) as he submitted his will to God the Father's will. This is a SERIOUS mistake the NAR movement makes, based on their interpretation of John 14 and their belief in miracles that can occur today through people empowered by the Holy Spirit.
Are miracles for today?
Miracles could certainly happen today, but they should not obscure the resurrection; the resurrection stands on its own and stands as a core element of our Christian faith.
One does not need to see or experience a miracle as the basis of faith/salvation.
What about the issue of testing the spirits? Or testing the validity of the miracle? Proper Hermeneutics?
Within NAR, sometimes "thinking too much" is seen as demonic or being "less than" Holy Spirit filled
Just because you may have witnessed something supernatural, doesn't necessarily mean it's from God (Matthew 24:24)!
What happens when a miracle doesn't occur?
It can be spiritually confusing and damaging if a miracle is promised, but doesn't come to pass.
Blaming the person who is petitioning the Lord and/or blaming the person who is not healed often occurs in NAR churches, which is very damaging.
Cautions/Take-aways:
Don't need to be fearful of miracles!
Be a critical thinker, be in the Word, practice proper Hermeneutics, test the spirits!
Focus on the "moral miracles", meaning the fruit of Spirit found in Galatians 5:22-23; personal transformation is evidence of salvation/work of the Holy Spirit in a person's life.
Segment #1 Resources
Doug and Holly's books:
PLUS two new books coming out in the near future! More info to come later!
Connect With the Guests
Holly's website: https://www.hollypivec.com/
Holly on FB: https://www.facebook.com/hollypivecauthor
Dr. Doug Geivett: https://www.biola.edu/directory/people/douglas-geivett
Annoucements!
Join in the conversation at our monthly Zoom call with our ministry supporters! We gather on the 3rd Saturday of each month to check in with each other and chop it up! Check out the link to support the ministry and join us at our next virtual coffee hour: https://www.centerforbiblicalunity.com/donate
Have you heard Monique's new podcast, Off Code? Monique co-hosts this new show with our friend and ministry partner, Kevin Briggins. You don't want to miss these kitchen table conversations! Check it out on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify! https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSr-7Jtur6g-GxwNzyA572GPpdlsib5j0
Our spring book groups are in full swing!
Find the info here: https://www.centerforbiblicalunity.com/bookclubs
Krista's second installment of "Systematic Theology for Regular People" starts soon! Check out the info on her latest class entitled, "Man, Sin, Salvation".
Connect with Us
Web site: https://www.allthethingsshow.com
Email: attlivestream@gmail.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/attlivestream
Podcast: search for "all the things show" on your favorite podcast platform
Subscribe to the show's YouTube Channel:
Support our Sponsors
Thank you for supporting us and our sponsors! Take a moment to like, share, subscribe, and pick up some merch!
Do you have a teenager or young adult? Impact 360 has a variety of phenomenal programs that will ground young people in their Christian faith and apologetics. Check out the video to learn more and visit their website to sign up!
Center for Biblical Unity:
Theology Mom:
Family 210 Clothing:
We appreciate your support! For every t-shirt purchased, $10 goes toward our family business (and all CFBU merch proceeds go to the ministry)!